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Topic: Did You Know.... |
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Posted By on 13 Nov 2007 10:13 AM
Our flight profiles ARE NOT the same, and as crashresidue said, our exposure is not the same. Stop comparing airliners to helicopters. It's chicken little and serves no purpose other than to bring an alarmist attitude that will only result in regulation that will strangle the industry in the long run. What is needed is education and training for the pilots. While I would like to fly a brand new IFR equipped aircraft that gets replaced every 3 years, that ain't gonna happen. I fly a VFR only, single pilot aircraft. Pilots that come into my part of the industry had better come well-trained and experienced. This is not a place to come and get experience. You guys say that you want two pilots in the aircraft. What the heck for? You claim to be professional yet you need someone else with you to make sure you're doing it right and not forgetting anything? A man I respect very much always used to repeat the so true phrase "Being professional is doing the right thing even when no one is watching." |
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RE: Did You Know.... |
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| Topic Review |  | |
C. Norland
New Member
Posts:1
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| 13 Nov 2011 02:55 AM |
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Hello,
I am interested to read all your comments on the current state of the industry, (even though this looks a couple years old now), because I am switching careers and considering which school to obtain flight training. I am worried about safety, and judging from all your comments I should pick wisely which instructor to learn from, and the amount of hours and his/her expertise. As a professional in computer networking I wish to carry over my professionalism into helicopter piloting and support all your efforts to strengthen organization.
Best regards,
Chris |
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patch
Posts:83
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| 11 Dec 2009 03:39 AM |
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| hello guys. iam currently in the military and iam looking to make a new career as a helo pilot. iam thinking about getting out and using the GI BILL at Bell Helicopters for training rather than cross to the army for more years and train. so as a pilot, which option would you say would be my best? and is this a career field that you can really enjoy and make a decent living. thank you for your support. please email me at patch21657@yahoo.com |
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Professional (guest)
Posts:83
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| 13 Nov 2007 10:13 AM |
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| Our flight profiles ARE NOT the same, and as crashresidue said, our exposure is not the same. Stop comparing airliners to helicopters. It's chicken little and serves no purpose other than to bring an alarmist attitude that will only result in regulation that will strangle the industry in the long run. What is needed is education and training for the pilots. While I would like to fly a brand new IFR equipped aircraft that gets replaced every 3 years, that ain't gonna happen. I fly a VFR only, single pilot aircraft. Pilots that come into my part of the industry had better come well-trained and experienced. This is not a place to come and get experience. You guys say that you want two pilots in the aircraft. What the heck for? You claim to be professional yet you need someone else with you to make sure you're doing it right and not forgetting anything? A man I respect very much always used to repeat the so true phrase "Being professional is doing the right thing even when no one is watching." |
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Russell Shearer
New Member
Posts:1
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| 19 Mar 2007 03:10 AM |
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Cheers Butch,
Just take a look at the numbers of helos vs airliners and consider the difference in t/o's and landings.
On a fire, if I've got a water source near, I'm doing one approach, one termination, and one departure every 3 -4 minutes. Departure is "max gross", over rough terrain, max performance, and usually with a crosswind.
I'll do this in two hour blocks, with about a 30 minute break, for 8 flight hours, 12 days in a row. THEN I get a whole TWO days off!
Do NOT make the mistake of comparing my flying to someone who makes ONE take-off and ONE landing every 3 or 4 hours - in a TWO pilot environment.
Our "accident rates" are NOT comparable - becasue our exposure rates are NOWHERE the same!
I do NOT have TCAS or a "George" to give it to after take-off - it's just ME.
"ping" me if you disagree.
cr |
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Spiderman (guest)
Posts:83
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| 14 Mar 2007 09:50 AM |
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The helicopter community needs to push the FAA to include us in the various safety programs and continuation training offered to the fixed wing community. I wish we could get some of the experienced guys to give lectures and seminars in the same format as the fixed wing guys do. We cannot get them to give instruction at the flight schools, but we could get them to speak for free. I learned more from a 2 hour checkride than I did from 30 hours with my low time instructor. Until we get realistic about who is giving instruction, who we are instructing, and what we are instructing....
Factory courses are great, but the fact is all manufacturers are facing the same issues with most of their accidents. Power Lines/Obstructions and Weather and practicing EPs. While different operations have different factors, they are usually "findings" but not "causal". |
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Eric Heinemann
New Member
Posts:4
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| 02 Nov 2006 05:36 AM |
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I'm a brand new CFI with an instrument rating (civilian) and I'm training brand new pilots. I'm all too aware that the guys who trained me were inexperienced just like I am.
I know it's an old topic, but I wish flight instruction could attract the experienced 10,000 + hour pilots. At least a few more of them. That'd cut down on the "pilot error" side of things quite a bit, I think.
As an instrument instructor I've never flown in actual IMC. I'm doing everything I know how to do to train safe pilots but the reality is that most of my knowledge is book knowledge. The guys with real experience that I've met are too busy to spend the time to give really good advice.
-eric
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Nic
New Member
Posts:1
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| 31 Oct 2006 12:16 PM |
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Lache pas mon homme! ;-)
Helistation is right, if union is not the answer what else is? Yes union might "stink" in certain field but then those fields has been dealing with union for many many years.
Our industry is like the truking industry before the "Teamster". We need something (Union or Association) to get our act together and go foward to better and safer work conditions.
If you think Union is not a good solution then please take some time to explain what would be a good solution to start with. That is what we need, get involve! :)
nic |
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HELISTATION
New Member
Posts:1
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| 23 Oct 2006 11:42 AM |
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For thirty years I've been hearing that Unions are not the answer.
In thirty year I haven't seen any changes for the better, only for the worst. rafav8r is totally right. We are a bunch of cheap whores so scared of rocking the boat.
You want changes? You want a decent retirement plan? You want to stop feeling like you are only just a shim between the cyclic and the seat? You want to be proud of your profession? You want to stop feeling like shit every-time you hear your buss Driver friend mention his income and social benefits.
http://www.helistation.org/index_eng.html
http://www.fsb-forums.com/forums/in...um.html%20
Give yourselves a break and invest in your future
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Spiderman (guest)
Posts:83
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| 09 Oct 2006 05:00 AM |
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Unionization stinks!
Pilots supporting other pilots through PROFESSIONAL organizations is the professional way to go.
Professional organizations should support continuation training and help employers and insurance companies realize the benefits of such training. Professional organizations should also support and encourage aspiring pilots through scholarships and mentorship programs. Low time pilots are not the problem; quality, and consistency in training are the problems. From who we qualify to how we qualify to how we build quality time is the issue. Quality time is not flying the same airspace in a R-22 for your 1,000 hour pennance. Apprenticeship is an old fashioned but proven way to provide low-cost quality experience. |
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Stan
New Member
Posts:4
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| 28 Sep 2006 01:21 AM |
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I have no problems with foreign pilots working here. They're already here, in fact. Listen to radio traffic in the Gulf of Mexico, and you'll probably hear as many foreign accents as you will South Louisiana or Texas voices. Most of those foreign pilots working for PHI are out with us - I know of only one who scabbed.
I agree with the two-pilot position, and with the use of modern equipment. As long as we are flying ancient aircraft single-pilot, there will be too many accidents.
I also agree that PHPA should become the ALPA of the helicopter world, but that's a long hard slog. Helicopter pilots tend to be much more independent and less amenable to conformity than airline pilots, and we need to get the rest of the industry organized. It's a lot of work over a long timeframe, but it needs to be done. Unionization is the only way to improve conditions in the industry. |
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flyclt (guest)
Posts:83
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| 06 Sep 2006 07:38 AM |
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Lifeflight-1, I disagree with your training option. If you want to be a pilot there are ways. Indentured servitude is not the answer. That will also start a major fall in pay across the board. However, I do agree with the SIC type learning/mentoring "AFTER" qualified.
Norbert, we do not need foriegn pilots working in the US (please do not be offended). The pilot shortage is actually good for now. Operations are beginning to realize the human resource value of experienced pilots. Thereby, the P&Bs are slowly increasing. To open up our system to foriegn pilots would certainly stop and probably reverse the trend. Though you may want a fair wage, the pilot from another country may work for peanuts. Seen it!
Butch, in my opinion, the best mitigators for accidents are (in no order):
1. New equipment with state of the art avionics/autopilots (expensive)
2. Move towards two pilot manning, call and response and to have another educated set of eyes, ears and sense (reduces workload)
3. Initial and recurrent training
4. FAA providing strong (knowledgeable) oversight
5. PHPA being the Helicopter Pilot's voice to the FAA and NTSB, the air carrier side has plenty of alphabet groups doing this on their behalf
Again, my opinions! |
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rafav8r (guest)
Posts:83
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| 03 Sep 2006 09:38 AM |
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| The real problem folks is the pay. It sucks, it is substandard and is an embarrasement to the profession! If you want experienced pilots you have to pay for them. Further, there needs to be a group that all of us belong to, like the singers and actors belong too. A pilots guild, and if you are not a member then you don't get too work for the good money. Furthermore, we as helicopter pilots are looked at as being the bottom of the barrel of the aviator community. If you want the recognition, the money, the respect then act like a professional and demand to be treated like a professional that is expected of us all in the requirements section (FAA) of our job. We need to quit acting like cheap whores. When we do, then the operators and the industry will not pay us as such and treat as such. I have been doing this for 23 years and the money is getting worse every year as compared to what is expected of us. The insurance, gas and all other costs are going up and the pay, benefits etc... are not going up exponentially as the others. Believe me when I say this I have close to 16,000 hours and 5 type ratings in fixed wing and have flown over 15 different helicopters. I want this too be a profession to be proud to be a part of again. |
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Norbert Gwosdek
New Member
Posts:3
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| 20 Aug 2006 10:38 AM |
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Hi everybody.
This is a serious issue. And one big part of it, I agree is the shortage of experienced pilots. One problem in the pilots shortage is also the immigration law, as I experienced myself. I am experienced, was trained by the U.S. Army in Ft. Rucker and Eagle, CO and am an instructor pilot with the German Army. I try to work an live in the U.S., because that is the country I really love. But it is almost impossible to get a green card or even a temporary work permit.
Although the U.S. immigration law is much better than the German (anybody can get in an work or study - you probably heard about a new terrorist, who studied here), it is too inflexible. It assesses almost all professions the same - except health professions. A kind of a pointing system would be better. That way the country would be able to react for shortages or overflow in one or the other profession.
Best wishes to all of you. Stay safe,
Norbert |
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X-Army (guest)
Posts:83
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| 19 Aug 2006 06:56 AM |
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| That program already exsists. Join the military. You'll get excellent training, a place to practice your skills with mentors and pay back your country for the privdledge of being born here. |
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Lifeflight-1 (guest)
Posts:83
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| 11 Aug 2006 02:53 AM |
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| Well one of the big problems with the pilot shortage is that the cost of training. Right now I have to pay as I go because I do not have a home or something to be able to get financing on. I think you would get more pilots if the helicopter companies could work out with a hiring process that says hey we will train you but you have to work for us for certian about of time.. I would gladly do that but comming to reality that this will never happen. If companies did that then they could train their pilots and step them up when they reach the appropriate level. This I think will help lower the accident rate.... |
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Alan Morden
New Member
Posts:1
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| 06 Aug 2006 11:57 AM |
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Hello Butch, I agree, the problems don't seem to be getting any better up here in Canada either. I can't speak directly to the bush operations, but it comes to mind quickly that the distance between experience levels is increasing far quicker that the industry can adjust. It seems no matter how much we pilots try to concvince operators that they need to start training and mentoring programs to address the pilot shortage and lack of experience, our concerns fall on deaf ears. The insurance industry doesn't help either, or the cost of training new pilots.
As to the EMS industry, I think the only answer is customer education. The problem as I see it is the customers only hear what the operators tell them, and operators are influenced by their bottom line. There are good operators out their, but decisions are being made with money in mind, and invariably "Risk Managment" and "acceptable risk" are terms you hear being discussed with customers. If the customer truly understood what the risks were, not just the operators version of them, we might make some gains in safety. We have to start making medical customers approach safety like aviators, not doctors. Last time I checked, we don't "practice" aviation, and mistakes are not something addressed by increasing our malpractice premiums. It usually means a loss of one of our own, and another black mark on the profession. Pretty harsh words, I know, but that's how I see it. |
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Butch Grafton
New Member
Posts:17
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| 04 Aug 2006 08:55 AM |
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Did you know that if the airline industry in the U.S. was experiencing the same accident rate as the helicopter industry they would be crashing 90 airliners a year. Would you put your loved ones on an airliner if that were the case?
The sad thing is it is getting worse in our industry rather than better. If we do not do something soon to turn this trend around I am afraid we will soon find many of us on the street looking for other work.
With that said, what do you think can be done to help reverse this trend?
Butch |
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